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 THE FACTS

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Mongler [82nd AB]
First Lieutenant
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Posts : 292
Join date : 2011-01-24
Age : 33
Location : Thurmont, MD

PostSubject: THE FACTS   Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:39 pm

I have been getting some messages concerning questions about who we are and are we merging or who is part of whom. I feel it is necessary to inform everyone of the current status of the 82nd AB 505th PIR Realism Unit for Day of Defeat 1.3

Lets look at the facts and not opinions.

Opinions are assumptions with no backing or logic except to reason and
conclude using the available information that does not represent the
entire story or event in fact or detail.

For this reason any ill informed logic or information is moot as it does not represent the justification of decisions that many have made. I will not even discus the opinions some have but ONLY THE FACTS as they are indisputable.

Fact represents the actual reality and description to what has happened
based on detail and supporting evidence that may correlate to an idea or
frame of logic.

Fact 1: When any member resigns or is discharged from the 82nd AB 505th
PIR, there status as a 82nd AB 505 PIR Realism unit member is terminated. That
is what a resignation or discharge is, a termination of membership to
this unit.

Fact 2: Kittens "82nd custom map server" was ONLY a 82nd server because
kitten was a 82nd member and she was/ is financially supporting it, aka
it was her server but it was a 82nd server because she was 82nd. HQ
allowed her server to be named as a 82nd server because it was operated
by 82nd AB 505th PIR members. The moment Kitten resigned, that server
was NO LONGER a 82nd AB 505th PIR Realism units server. This is a fact because because the membership of the members, who operated and have financial obligation rights to, as a
82nd member was terminated.

Fact 3: The 82nd AB 505th PIR realism unit did not relocate, terminate,
disband, or change. Some members have left this unit and are no longer 82nd AB 505th PIR unit members. This unit is NOT a dictatorship, we have a HQ staff
that gets together and makes changes that we all can agree on that
better this unit. Bocek, Foshey, Kitten, Kapps, English, Jackson, and
myself (Mongler) made up the HQ and NOTHING EVER EVER EVER was approved
of a move to the , at the time, "82nd AB custom server" kittens server.
No meeting was posted, no discussion took place, and no consultation of a
new unit was presented to HQ. Therefore this unit DID NOT start a new
branch because the 82nd AB 505th PIR HQ did not unanimously approve any
moment of members or branching of this unit to a different location or
approve any tags that are represented or are part of the 82nd AB 505th
PIR Realism unit for DoD 1.3. Please do not confuse this with the
upcoming server relocation Bocek is planning.

Fact 4: Resignations were posted and members left. Those past members
that resigned put tags on that are "505th PIR" and claim to be 82nd AB
members. This reality that some claim, is False and in no way is TRUE to
any degree.
You can call an apple a cherry all day til your blue in the face but it still remains a apple.

Look over the FACTS and not opinions. Ask yourself who you belong to? The 82nd AB 505th PIR realism unit for DoD1.3? Or do you belong to a unit that has no ties to the 82nd AB 505th PIR realism unit?
I support the idea, with the stated facts that members are following there "leader" remeber hq did not aprove this, because they may have been ill informed or may have not been presented by the facts and have made a decision to possibly "hop on the band wagon" and follow a member that they feel is there leader. REMEBER THERE IS NO LEADER. Only a rank that supports a chain of command. The 82nd AB 505th PIR has an HQ and not one or 2 leaders that chose if we move or not. IT MUST BE A HQ approved notion for anything to be considered a 82nd decision.

Therefore, the 82nd AB 505th PIR will remain who we are and what they do and what we call ourselves and NO ONE can take that away from us.

I have not said any harmful or hostel things here. Only facts to clarify to those who have been asking "what is going on?"

My intentions are NOT TO point fingers or to say who is wrong but simply to inform.


Last edited by Mongler [82nd AB] on Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:26 am; edited 2 times in total
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Helfert



Posts : 45
Join date : 2011-01-23

PostSubject: Re: THE FACTS   Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:08 pm

I completely understand what you are saying here, but at the end of what all u wrote, u stated your opinion, which u said not to do, you have no idea why people left, whether it be band wagon or not, the facts are people left, there are no facts to their reasons why.
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Mongler [82nd AB]
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Posts : 292
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Age : 33
Location : Thurmont, MD

PostSubject: Re: THE FACTS   Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:42 pm

sorry about that, thanks dude i fixed it.
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Planer



Posts : 46
Join date : 2011-01-23

PostSubject: Re: THE FACTS   Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:26 pm

There's some inconsistency between the posted fact 2 and fact 3.

Fact 2 says HQ allowed the Kitten's server to be named 82nd.
Fact 3 says HQ, implied from the names listed there, did not approve of Kitten's server to be named 82nd.

I don't know if it's my misinterpretation, if there's a difference between allowing and approving, or if it's a genuine screw up, but clarifying this would greatly help my understanding of this situation.


And to make it easier for others who are trying to catch up on this, I'd also like to request this unit to be referred to as 82nd (without the 505th, as much as we are the 505th), and Foshey's unit to be referred to as 505th in this thread for the purpose of eliminating ambiguity. It will make it less confusing to read, and I'm pretty sure I already may have misinterpreted something because of this confusion.
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Mongler [82nd AB]
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Posts : 292
Join date : 2011-01-24
Age : 33
Location : Thurmont, MD

PostSubject: Re: THE FACTS   Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:40 pm

Planer [82nd AB] wrote:
There's some inconsistency between the posted fact 2 and fact 3.

Fact 2 says HQ allowed the Kitten's server to be named 82nd.
Fact 3 says HQ, implied from the names listed there, did not approve of Kitten's server to be named 82nd.

I don't know if it's my misinterpretation, if there's a difference between allowing and approving, or if it's a genuine screw up, but clarifying this would greatly help my understanding of this situation.


And to make it easier for others who are trying to catch up on this, I'd also like to request this unit to be referred to as 82nd (without the 505th, as much as we are the 505th), and Foshey's unit to be referred to as 505th in this thread for the purpose of eliminating ambiguity. It will make it less confusing to read, and I'm pretty sure I already may have misinterpreted something because of this confusion.

"Bocek, Foshey, Kitten, Kapps, English, Jackson, and
myself (Mongler) made up the HQ and NOTHING EVER EVER EVER was approved
of a move to the , at the time, "82nd AB custom server" kittens server."
KEY WORD HERE "MADE" past tense as in this was the HQ and during that time NOTHING was presented. to clerify foshey and kitten are NOT HQ members of the 82nd 505th PIR anymore, based on the facts i presented. The 82nd AB 505th PIR unit in no way released concent to foshey to use our tags in the"505th" server.

So no i am not going to change it for the sake of those that do not know what is going on. If you do not know then you are ill informed or you are lacking the full extent of the information that is available. Please refer to the facts and rules of our unit to realize that this is how it works. do some investigation if you want and find out by asking ppl instead of taking ppls word for it.
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Jackson



Posts : 42
Join date : 2011-01-26

PostSubject: Re: THE FACTS   Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:25 pm

well said Monglar and for Planner u already jumped and what the deal is so you fully understand the situation
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Planer



Posts : 46
Join date : 2011-01-23

PostSubject: Re: THE FACTS   Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:30 pm

That's kind of what I'm trying to do here.

A thread has been posted, something in there doesn't exactly make sense, and I ask for that little bit of inconsistency to be clarified, or to point out it's just my own misinterpretation. Consistency means that both statements cannot contain contradictions, especially to each other.

And I am quite ill-informed on this topic. I'm glad this thread has been posted and titled "THE FACTS" as it helps the ill-informed a lot, but the logical inconsistency between those two facts are an obstacle that prevents me from being less ill-informed, and as an individual who is ill-informed but would like to be less ill-informed, I only ask for the inconsistency between fact 2 and fact 3 to be clarified.

If they were perfectly logically consistent, then that would mean HQ at the time allowed and at the same time did not approve of Kitten's server being named 82nd. I'm only asking for the difference between the two, or if it was mistyped.

Again, the point of my replies here is that I'm trying to inquire on this matter.

As a rational individual as everyone should be, I would need reasons before making decisions. That's why when someone from Foshey's unit kept asking me to join them, I kept asking for a story that explains what happened and did not say anything about leaving or staying here.

If I mindlessly agreed, I would have never gotten the chance to listen to 82nd AB 505th PIR's explanation of the situation, and if I would have felt that remaining in the 82nd AB was the right decision given that I have a clear understanding what of happened, I would have missed that opportunity.


To stress this point, I am only trying to understand what is going on. I mean, that is the point of this thread, right?








Jackson [82nd AB] wrote:
well said Monglar and for Planner u already jumped and what the deal is so you fully understand the situation

Actually, I've only discovered the situation from Foshey's and Kitten's explanations of this, Foshey's thread titled "Response" here (which don't have too much of a context for people to catch up on), the series of demerit requests, and this thread.

If that is all there is that I need to know, then please do let me know. I am in no position to know how much of my knowledge on this matter is relative to the full picture. It's like if I were to fill up a glass with water, I would not know where the top of the glass is, but I only know how much has been filled up.


Last edited by Planer [82nd AB] on Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : double posts are unethical)
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Mongler [82nd AB]
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Age : 33
Location : Thurmont, MD

PostSubject: Re: THE FACTS   Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:04 am

Very insightful about the glass of water. i'm going to steel that!

I said it already and if you understand the meaning of Made vs. Make then you can interpret the context in which it was written.
to clarify:

at the time BEFORE anything happened, The HQ was composed of those members. Now it is not. When the server, now known as "505th", was 82nd kitten was a member and had not resigned. The instant that her server changed from the "82nd AB custom" to "505th" and coinciding with the instant of resignation, that server, the one called "505th" no longer was 82nd affiliated.
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Planer



Posts : 46
Join date : 2011-01-23

PostSubject: Re: THE FACTS   Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:49 am

Mongler [82nd AB] wrote:
Very insightful about the glass of water. i'm going to steel that!

I said it already and if you understand the meaning of Made vs. Make then you can interpret the context in which it was written.
to clarify:

at the time BEFORE anything happened, The HQ was composed of those members. Now it is not. When the server, now known as "505th", was 82nd kitten was a member and had not resigned. The instant that her server changed from the "82nd AB custom" to "505th" and coinciding with the instant of resignation, that server, the one called "505th" no longer was 82nd affiliated.

That's the clarification I was looking for.

It just gets confusing when two facts, when misread as if they are explaining the same time frame, contradict each other.
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